Rightwords... Prudent Conservatism

Oh my god, you can't be serious. Manning, I have read your posts over the last while and found them to be thoughtful and informed albeit from a differing political perspective than that of my own. But this latest post is out of character. "Kill them all"?, "don't need to address the accusations against us.., you are either with us, or against us?

And you wonder why the World is not a big fan of the US? There was another country that adopted a similar attitude about 60 some odd years ago -

I agree that the terrorists need to be dealt with, but simply adopting a mandate of 'killing them all' is not the way to do it - because as I am sure you know, when you kill one terrorist, 10 more get inspired. I tend to agree with Richard Clarke - the only LONG TERM solution includes education and support - to essentially cut off the head of the snake once and for all.

I sincerely hope this is just a rant as opposed to a literal belief.

for all of us.

IW
 

The question is before the house as to what you do to stop Jihadists from...Jihading. The first difficulty, of course, is to find them. Most of the time they find you, on their terms, and simply blow themselves up, along with as many of our people as they can get near. Now these we do indeed find, or at least we find some parts, but they are already dead. So are our people.

We need to go back a step and find those who set up the bomber and convinced him to...bomb himself.
Most of the time, we never find the parties behind the bomber, except under lucky circumstances: they have an accident and blow themselves up; or the bomb-making materials are found as a byproduct of another action.

Thus we are forced to make broadcast appeals to the organizations behind the bombings.
You can tell how well we are succeeding by the number of bombs that go off per day. Apparently, we are not succeeding with one-sided pleadings or promises.
We just cannot seem to reach them at all. The Israeli--Palestine terror war has been going on for 50 years. Negotiations and concessions are meaningless, as successive Presidents have found out.

What to do? We cannot imprison the entire population of Iraq on suspicion. We can well go fight the Jihadists that appear and shoot at us and kill us--about one-to-one, with some success. But, if we leave them strictly alone, they pop up again and blow something up, usually lots of Iraqi innocents. This isn't right either!

Now we could put a pox on them all and go home. That will not work either. In a short time, many tens of thousands of Iraqis would be killed by the terrorists --Sunnis killing Shiites, or the other way around, levened a little by both tribes killing off most of the Kurds.

So we stay and build up the forces of the legitimate Iraqi government, hoping that they can eventually kill their own terrorists as well as or better than we can, and in better ratios than one-to-one also.

We have here the perfect tar baby.
The perfect damned if you do and damned if you don't situation.
Never mind how we got there, that is not now the problem.

The problem is how to stop them from killing us or other Iraqis and to become good citizens. Any practical ideas? Let me see...

We could ignore them! No probable effect on the bombings.

We could try to appease them. They will take and take and still bomb.

We could reason with them. They will listen and listen and still bomb.

We could fight them wherever they appear and fight us, as we are doing. They bomb and fight back still.

We could catch some and hold them. More come and bomb and fight.

We could let those we have caught go free. They take up arms and fight again.

We could leave, as above, with genocide as the outcome.

So what is the solution, short of killing each and every Jihadist?
You tell me exactly how you would handle this situation.
 

Well, perhaps I overshot the mark in one respect. If other nations have legitimate grievances against the US for acts of commission on our part, they should be heard.

However, that does not include Bush, his decisions, Iraq, the Middle East, or the GWOT. It does not include our position on the UN (the Untied Nations) or the ICC.

If it is lack of aid money, go talk to the IMF. If it is about your own insurgency, get in line. We are overtaxed in that category of help at the moment.

If you want our aid money, you want a favorable trade agreement, YOU WANT TO BE INCLUDED IN OUR SECURITY CAPABILITIES, and you want our tourist business, then earn it. We want to see your support in the UN every time out, and we want to see maximum cooperation regarding defeating terrorists. OTHERWISE, YOU TOO ARE SOL.

If you are a Muslim nation striving to keep Sharia law and do not back our policies for the Middle East and elsewhere, and do not cooperate to defeat the Islamic terrorists, sooner or later you will be SOL WITH US.

Nothing comes for free in the world, especially not handouts to ungrateful nations. There is no free lunch!

We will escalate our research to achieve abundant energy from hydrogen and other sources, and then let you sit on your oil in your vast desert sands. Good Luck to you.

If you are an European Nation and sign up to the Hate America campaign, or try to embarass the US in any way or fail to support us in the GWOT, you, too, will be SOL. Perhaps not today, but we have a very long memory for our friends and enemies. Your time will come, unless we get a panty-waist Leftie government in power.
(Which I hope will never happen)

There are many reasons for not caring whether other nations or peoples like the US. One is their own governments and elitists, many of whom are HOSTILE to us in the first place. Another is the widespread ENVY of our material wealth and freedom of action, which some nations are unwilling or unable to even begin to duplicate. A third reason is their perception that they are totally bogged down in their own country and cannot see their way out of poverty, while we coast merrily along: RESENTMENT, in other words.
Fourth, Arabs also have a long memory. They are still livid that they lost out in Europe in the 11th and 12th Centuries. THEY WANT THE CALIPHATE BACK,

A fifth reason is the very fact of our power in the world: economic, social, technical and military power that is unrivaled in history.
We as a people know that we are not pursuing Empire, but others see it differently. They know that we COULD dominate them if we wanted to, and that is an uncomfortable position to be in.

A sixth reason is the Mainstream Media in foreign lands, and even in our own land, which posts gross distortions of the truth every day about us, thus poisoning the people against the US. This "art form" has been operation for 50 years, and in no way is it a new factor. I have lived under it in Europe for a total of 13 of my years, as has my family, so we know first-hand whereof we speak. I gave up trying to counter the lies about the US that Europe has been fed all this time.

The world is extremely fortunate that the greatest superpower ever seen is in fact benevolent to those who pose no threat to freedom.

Exactly who benefits from denegrating the US? They will find out.
 

Here is yet another illustration of the helplessness of the left. I asked several questions of MC as to what HE would do in our situation. No response. He can recoil in rightious indignation at what I posted, but when asked what to do, there is NO response. Well, that is being taken care of by the Bush Administration.
 

Sorry Manning, actually your assumptions have lead you astray. My silence wasn't a funtion of 'rightious indignation', in fact it was simply a case of a busy real world life, and a mixed up pc. Whether that is a problem with everyone on 'the left' or not.. I don't know. I will say the other time I tried to response - blogger was closed down for 'maintenance'.. perhaps that was a right wing conspiracy to silence we people of the left ;p
Seriously tho.. let me read though and try to respond. two secs (kids need breakfast)
 

I realize my view of the world is, at times, panglossian in nature. The US is undoubtedly the most impressive power in world history - but with that title comes a huge amount of responsibility. I also agree that the issue of jihad is a serious one for EVERYONE - as radicals push their twisted views through terror and violence. You mentioned Israel and Palestine - which I think is a perfect example of the dilemma we face.

Iraq is a mess - the US's approach, attitude and casus belli has made the situation far worse than it ever should have been. Iraq is now a breeding ground for insurgents, and a symbol to all muslims of 'whats wrong with the US'. I wholeheartedly agree that Saddam needed to get taken out, but that has been a fact for more than 20 years. 20! The current situ in Iraq was created (imo) by the US and I have no idea HOW to get out of there without making matters worse.

The more relevant situ with terrorism (al qaeda, bin laden, etc) and how to deal with it becomes far more difficult with snafu's like Iraq. Without Iraq the US could have focused its resrouces and manpower on BIN LADEN, without Iraq US troops wouldn't have to worry about insurgents at every turn, without Iraq we'd be looking for a relatively small group.. Bin Laden, Al zarhawi etc.

I know I don't have a lot of answers, certainly not enough to satisfy the questions you raised above - but the situation is far more sophisticated and difficult now. Simple answers were thrown out the window the day Bush decided to make the Bin Laden/Saddam swap. Unfortunately he didn't think out the consequences of his actions fully.
I will try to expand on this in a bit.. but at least wanted to post so you knew I wasn't hiding. :)
 

The dilemma is real! And a number of people one must respect for their knowledge of Islam and the Middle East, Michael Scheurer and Robert Spencer to name two, definitely come down on the side of a fight to the death between Jihadists and the Western World.
...

Europe is already engaged in feeble attempts to stem the tide of Islamicists migrating legally or otherwise into the EU consortium. If Turkey were to be admitted into the EU, the door to the West would be swung wide open for the migration. The populations of our erstwhile continental friends would, in a mythical fortnight, become more than 51% Islamicist, unless they actually called out the armies to expell them!

Fortunately, Turkey itself seems to be heading away from the EU at warp speed, and our (almost) former NATO ally will chart a different course now more in keeping with Allah.

No sense in spending blame time now, because we must unravel the situation satisfactorily very soon indeed. We are dealing with ALL Islamic Jihadists wherever found in the world.

One fact that is significant: The Koran and many fatwas state that an attack on any one Islamic state must be defended against! Thus Iraq must be defended to the death, or else the Jihad has failed, which would be perhaps a mortal blow to these extremists.
Hence there is a rationale for our being in Iraq -- to kill Jihadists as they come to the Iraqi party in accordance with their religion. There, in Iraq, rather than in the West, which arrangement seems much better than fighting on our own soil.

Several Generals have reported that the largest percentage of killed or captured Jihadists now are not Iraqis, which lends credence to the idea that the foreign Jihadists are indeed flocking to the party there as was hoped, and they are being killed at a goodly rate.

In fact, the more they mass in Iraq, the easier the battle is for us to win. What we need is perseverance and guts to war it out for a few more years. If ten come in honor of one of their fallen, it quickly becomes a pitched battle against their assembled terrorist army that our massive power can address effectively. So they will be caught in a meatgrinder between their religious edicts and the US Armed forces in Iraq, and, eventually, the Iraqi Army as well.

Most commentators on both sides of this Jihad have stated their belief that the West does not have the stomach for the war as it must be fought to win. Therefore, in the end, the jihadists will prevail through sheer willpower and dedication over a long period of time.

Is this the outcome we want?
 

I simply worry that the US culture is ill prepared for the battle they have just entered into. The middle east has a long history of brutal, bloody warfare. The US, while powerful militarily, is a neophyte when it comes to 'jihad' warfare. I worry that the final outcome will resemble some form of vietnam frustration.. killing EVERYONE, because they couldn't tell the good from the bad.

To be honest I have no idea how the US will win this long long long term war.. I just hope they do.
 

Fair enough, MC, I also hope we have the staying power to see the GWOT through. It is a pity that there cannot be a negotiated solution that would allow the fighting to stop and the fighters to retire to their homelands. But, that is the nature of Islamic Jihadism, and I do not believe they will sue for peace in my lifetime.

The way out we are pursuing has a chance if the US public does not become weak-kneed. I would guess that the Jihadists are looking for two things now: a rebellious US public that wants, willy-nilly, to cut and run; and, a big win for the Democrats in 2006 and 2008 on a platform of stopping the war. I shudder to think of the consequences of such an event!

We have had that experience in Vietnam, where the media and the flower-power public destroyed our winning position at the last moment. Two years later the VN massacred two million people in Indochina who happened to be on the wrong side. In effect, that is our responsibility for stepping aside and letting it happen, and of course, theirs for doing such a barbaric thing.

I am certain that the Jihadists are watching closely to see whether we lose our resolve by the 2008 election time. This means that their insurgency will continue through then for certain, and even longer as a test of the new Administration's will. This time there will be no "Honorable Conclusion," I'm afraid, short of complete victory.
 

What are your thoughts on the story out of the BBC that said President Bush claims "God told me to invade Iraq"? Are you comfortable with a President who claims to be contacted by God himself? Isn't President Bush in a way presenting himself as an oracle? Or, was it a way of deflecting criticism regarding an increasingly unpopular action? Is it damage control? (will try to be more diligent in checking your blog.. sorry.. I can only get to it once in a while.. but I do appreciate your comments!!! )

mc
 

Interesting and typical BBC fabrication. The BBC has been one of the most virulent anti-Bush organizations in the world, second only to Islamic ones. So any statatement they can make to put Bush down, they will do it. I do not believe for one moment that Bush made such a claim, unless in poking fun at someone. That is an old saw here -- "God made me do it!" If he had done so provably not in jest, it would have been all over the press here, and it has not.

Now, this all-out "get Bush" movement has reached truly silly proportions! Too bad for the BBC, they used to be a reliable source for news. No longer. Now they are discredited.

As I have said before, this is the kind of story that the left-leaning MSM has been planting for a long time now, much to their discredit.
 

WASHINGTON (AFP) - The White House has denied that US President George W. Bush said God told him to invade Iraq and Afghanistan, as a new BBC documentary is expected to reveal.


"That's absurd. He's never made such comments," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said Thursday.

The documentary series set to be broadcast later this month in Britain claims Bush made the claim when he met Palestinian leader Mahmud Abbas and then-foreign minister Nabil Shaath in June 2003.

He also told them he had been ordered by God to create a Palestinian state, the ministers said.

Shaath, now the Palestinian information minister, said: " President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God'".

"'God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan'.

"'And I did. And then God would tell me, 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq... ' And I did.

"'And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East'. And by God I'm gonna do it'," said Shaath.

Abbas, who was also at the meeting in the Egyptian resort of Sharm al-Sheikh, recalled how the president told him: "'I have a moral and religious obligation'".

"'So I will get you a Palestinian state.'"

The three-part series, "Elusive Peace: Israel and the Arabs", charts the attempts to bring peace to the Middle East, from former US president Bill Clinton's talks in 1999-2000 to Israel's withdrawal from the Gaza strip.

The series is due to begin airing Monday